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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Susan Quant Bianchi 
May 4, 1992 – May 24, 1992 
Cassette 3, Side 1 
 
 
Linda C. Meuter  00:01 
Of Susan Quant Bianchi's life history. It is May 4, 1992, in Susan Bianchi's home. 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  00:11 
I brought the pop. Someone brought a bag of potato chips, and the boys were fumbling around in 
their pockets trying to dig up enough money to buy a couple more bags of potato chips. They ran 
down to the store, got two bags of potato chips. They were perfectly happy about it. It didn't-- it 
didn't bother them at all. It was the most interesting evening that you could imagine. They had a 
ball. They ate the potato chips in two seconds. I think most of them had brought their swimsuits. 
They had a-- they had a wonderful time down swimming. They swam for an hour. But the thing 
that was fascinating to me was the dance. I had them bring their own music, which they did 
remember, you know, music that was special or important to them. And the moms danced with 
the sons. The moms-- there were little kids, you know, all the ages of the family. There were the 
little kids dancing with the moms, the whole families and friends, you know. And this-- another 
family dancing together. They all danced together. And they were-- some of them were sleeping 
over in a corner. They got tired, so they, you know, walked over the corner and laid down on the 
floor, went to sleep. The little kids, as they got tired, slept, you know, slept, they'd wake up and 
dance another dance. But something about that, I thought was so natural and the way our families 
ought to be. You know, we always live with total separation. Once our kids become teenagers, 
moms don't go to the-- you know, parents, and little brothers and sisters, it wouldn't be dreamed 
of, that they go to the dances, and here they come, and it's the whole family, and there's no 
embarrassment about it. It's the way that they do it. And I think that, you know, in some ways 
then, they have closer families. I just loved it. I absolutely loved it. In comparison to the other 
groups that I worked with, you know, were from Fairhaven, and Whatcom, and Shuksan, and 
they did more upscale type things. We had lot of dinners. Of course, all the food would be 
remembered. And I-- probably the biggest one single function I did with them was a fashion 
show. And we called it Alice in Fashion Land, and had tryouts for the fashion show, but every 
girl got to be in it in some way or other. Either she was modeling, or she was a narrator, you 
know, or something very special. And they sold tickets, and it was a way of raising money, and 
we donated to the Y, and they absolutely loved, you know, the idea of being in a fashion show. I 
think that's something girls-- girls, think, you know, from the time they're 12 years old, to be in a 
fashion show or to be a model. And that was the in the spring, our big spring event, and it was 
the biggest thing that they did. But every week we went swimming, and every week we talked, 
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we had a different topic. And every week, you know, the topic might be, you know, something 
that was relevant to being a teenager. Sometimes it was topics that they had brought up. They, 
you know, would ask for certain discussions and it was, you know, thoroughly enjoyable. 
Another interesting time for me, you know, as youth director, was getting a call from the 
principal of Shuksan Junior High, and he had a problem with a girl who was in one of my Y 
team groups. Her name was Lynn, and it was simply a body-- it was not simply, but it was a 
body odor problem. And it was so bad that, you know, that intervention needed to happen. And 
he called me to see if I could work with her or do anything, you know, to help the situation. And 
I brought her home with me. She lived with me for a weekend. We walked in the door, and I 
remember the first thing I said was, Well, the first thing I do is, you know, I've been in my 
clothes all day. I said, I just do the laundry first. So I said, if you want to go on back and get your 
'jamas on, strip your clothes off. I'm going to wash what I've got on, and I'll wash what you've 
got on. You know, she's, she just stunk. And then, then I said, if you want to take your bath first, 
you want to take your bath first, or do you want to wait till me, till after I'm done? We just kind 
of naturally got into this flow of that. And then, you know, after a while, she wanted to talk about 
it. She had a single mother at home who just, you know, was never there, and she had no 
knowledge of anything, from how to eat, to how to take care of her body. And it was rewarding 
experience for me. She lived with me, and we got close during that weekend, at least close 
enough that-- I guess not close, I don't know how close you get in a weekend, but close enough 
that she could ask me anything, and I felt I'd made a difference in her life. And that was that 
meant something. 
 
Linda C. Meuter  04:44 
Did your relationship continue with Lynn?  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  04:47 
Yes, through the year, whenever she had a problem, she would come to me and we would talk. 
She always felt very-- I think she always felt very comfortable with me. When she was in the 
fashion show, she was one of the narrators. She needed a new dress, and she'd saved her money 
from babysitting, so I went downtown and helped her select her new dress. And so through that 
whole year, you know, we really-- I felt like I said before, I think I made a difference in her life. 
 
Linda C. Meuter  05:16 
Today is May 24, 1992, and I am in the home of Susan Quant Bianchi, interviewing her for her 
life history. Sue, where would you like to begin today? 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  05:36 
I think I, I think I'm going to start and tell something that I hadn't planned to talk about. It's 
something that I've never talked to anyone about, because it embarrasses me. I'm a person that 
I've always been considered a really strong woman, and I'm a person who feels like you have 
enough control in your life that you can take care of things. Well, I wasn't able to at one point, 
and this, this was the summer of, or late spring of 1970 and it was two days before the fashion 
show was to begin. Working for the Y. And some people felt I had a nervous breakdown. I'd 
rather say that I had total burnout, because I think it's a better word. I like the word. The word is, 
I can handle that word. What happened to me was I woke up one morning and was not able 
physically to get out of bed. I could not. I absolutely could not move. I couldn't get my legs to 
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the ground. I had been in bed an hour, and what I had done is I hadn't been to bed for four days. I 
had been working so hard, day and night, on that fashion show, because I'm a perfectionist. And 
I had worked day and night for four days, I was starting to see things, I mean, you know. And 
also, during this time, I was still, you know, fighting my weight, and I was up at my heaviest 
weight, and so I had gone on a diet. And I was-- what kind of diet is there? What, starvation? So 
I got on a starvation diet. I wasn't eating, so I wasn't eating, and I wasn't sleeping, and I was 
working. I had an interview that day with the Herald. I had an interview that day with a radio 
station. You know, I had a schedule that every half hour I had to be somewhere or doing 
something, and I couldn't get out of bed, and I started to cry. And you know, I just, I just, I lost it. 
I could not believe this was happening to me. I slept for four days. I missed the fashion show. 
Other people took over for me. It was a lesson in learning that other people could do my job, that 
I didn't have to do it, you know, that there were other people to take over. I always thought I had 
to do it all. And I think some other things were happening in my life, also, that affected me, and 
you know, good came out of it. Good ended up coming out of it. Stan's aunt came to my house, 
and we talked for a long time, and Stan and I had been growing apart. And he had had probably 
one of the most wonderful years of his life, that year. And I've always been really, really proud 
of him. He was nominated Teacher of the Year in 1970 and he was also president of BEA, which 
is the Blaine Education Association. And he was basketball coach, and was totally involved in 
his life and totally busy. And I just was, I wasn't there. I wasn't in his life. It was like we were 
just growing apart. So what I think I did was I put all of my time and energies into my job at the 
Y. And I reached a point where one morning, I wasn't able to get out of bed, and I didn't know 
why, and I didn't know what had happened to me, but it made me slow down. It-- you know, I 
think sometimes God comes down and does something like say, hey, you know, you're in bed for 
a week, because that's, you know, that's what I am deciding needs to happen to you. And He 
intervenes. That's, that's what I think happens. Stan's aunt called Stan. He was, he was over at 
Lummi Island, working, getting ready for the fishing season, and he came home, and my whole 
life slowed down. And what-- I started to talk and instead of talking about what I thought I was 
going to talk about was why, what had happened to me, all of our talk went into that I was, you 
know, I wasn't that happily married at this point of my life. And I still loved him just as much, if 
not more. I think I loved him more. It's just we weren't close, and I was lonely for that affection 
and closeness that a marriage can have. And that summer I--we have, we had a trailer out at 
Lummi, and so I spent the whole summer just, almost like a recluse, living out at Lummi with 
Stan while he was fishing. I absolutely loved it, but he and I started talking, and I'm married to a 
non-talking husband. I'm married to one of those quiet-type men. And he said a lot of things to 
me that I didn't realize he was thinking, and I didn't realize, you know, where he was coming 
from, but he'd been through seven divorces between his mother and his father. There were seven 
divorces, and he had learned that when you loved someone, all-- you know, that you love 
someone, and maybe the next day they were gone. And so he had a really hard time telling me 
that he loved me. And he had a, he had a hard time with a total commitment to someone, you 
know? And I thought there was enough trust between us that, that we had that, but we didn't. 
And this summer start-- started that. And it started, and it's been-- what's this? '92. 22 more 
years, and it's continued for, you know, for the past 22 years. But we, we talked all summer long, 
and talked about why, you know, neither one of us, you know we're both afraid of conflict. Why 
we're afraid of conflict? Mine is because my parents were always fighting. His was because of all 
the divorces and the conflict, you know, with that and never knowing, you know, if he was going 
to be living at home or at his grandparents'. He lived in his car. At one point in his life, he had 
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every single thing he owned in his car, and he lived on-- he only stayed on the beach at night. So 
he didn't, you know, there wasn't a lot of stability there. So now he's in a home, you know, with a 
wife, and we're trying to learn how to do it differently. And I think that summer started it. It 
started it, and he learned how to tell me he loved me. And if I recall that, that was the first of 
being able to tell me he loved me. What he used to do, what he'd do was-- because he's always 
loved me, and I knew he loved me, but what he'd do was he do things for me. He's always been, 
I'll do things for you. And he always did things for me, but not the touching, and hugging, and 
holding, and I love you part of it. And that started that summer, and we just got really close, and 
it was, it was wonderful. And I slowed down permanent-- I'm not-- no, I got busy again. But as I 
got busy again, it was, it was a wholesome, good thing. It was for good reasons. But the why 
wasn't for good reasons. I realized, you know, as I look back on it, that I was living there and 
doing a triple job there because I was lonely at home, and Stan wasn't home, he was never home. 
So it was good, you know, what something bad turned into something that really helped us. And 
I am, like I said, I love living at Lummi. Joe Creasy lived there too. Marsha Bianchi lived there. 
And the-- and their husbands both fished for Stan, and we'd spend our days out on the reefnet 
gear, and it was exciting. I don't know if you've been on a fishing gear, but it's exciting. It's, oh, I 
love the whole process of it, watching the fish come in. We were counting them. And, you know, 
Jo and I would get excited about, oh, there's a-- I wanted a dishwasher. I don't remember what 
she wanted, but, you know, we'd count the fish and go, I think we've almost got a, you know, a 
dishwasher now. And just spent the days sun tanning, and leisure, and on the boats. And we 
would go in early and, you know, have campfires and have dinner, and there was no telephone, 
there was no TV, you know, we would read. We'd sit on the beach, and there's something really, 
oh, what's the word I'm looking for? Healing, about being on the beach, you know, with the 
water. Now, I would sometimes-- after Stan would go to bed, because he'd be up at 4:35 in the 
morning, and I would go to sit by the beach and listen to the water, and feel whole again. It was 
really good. 
 
Linda C. Meuter  14:10 
It seems this, this theme of love is coming-- and finding love is coming back through in your 
story.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  14:18 
Well, you know, I think in marriage, you do go in and out of it, not love necessarily. I think 
we've loved each other from the very beginning. But your marriage, you know, I've been married 
28 years. Your marriage has got its low times. It has its times when you're not communicating. It 
has its times when you're communicating, you know, wonderfully. But marriages is a road like 
this, and but what's-- what happened then was, I think our road tended to be more like this, where 
now our road is like this, just little bumps, and where-- we can recognize the little bumps real 
quickly now and talk about them. And before, I used to play games, and I knew I played games, 
but I, you know, it was for attention, too. One of my games was, you know, guess why I'm mad 
and stuff like that. I would play the quiet person. I would be very, very, very angry. But he would 
come home and ask, what was the matter? And I went, Nothing. Nothing's the matter. You 
know? And so it was simply, you know, can you guess why I'm mad? And so he would just go 
back to the bedroom and ignore me, which was the last thing I wanted. I wanted him to come 
over and hold me, and say, What's the matter, honey? You know? And so those games are gone 
too, thank God, because they're, you know, they don't work. You know, another thing I learned 
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with him was when I wanted work done, I wanted it done now, you know, like yesterday. And so 
I learned to tell him a week in advance, you know, I'd like something done next week. And, you 
know, he could handle that, but I would wait. I would say I want something done, and he 
wouldn't do it. So I would wait a month until I was angry about it, you know, and then approach 
him when I'm really angry about it. And, you know, today, or, you know, for the last 22 years, 
basically when I want something done, I'll say these are some things I want done when you get a 
chance, you know, and there's no anger about it anymore. 
 
Linda C. Meuter  16:14 
So it sounds like the summer of 1970 was a real growth period for you-- 
 
Linda C. Meuter  16:19 
--and your marriage, and your ideas about your life, did you-- where did it spring forth from that 
summer? What happened out there?  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  16:19 
--growth-- 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  16:27 
What happened?  
 
Linda C. Meuter  16:27 
Yeah. 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  16:27 
Good things happened then. Really good things. That winter, let's see. That winter, we continued 
talking and growing closer, and one of the most-- one, we did two things, two really major things 
happened. One was we-- I wanted a baby, and that was one of the major, you know, things that 
was wrong in my life for me. And so, we contacted Mr. Flynn in Bellingham, an attorney, and, 
you know, told him all about wanting a baby, and asked him if he could help us, and he said he 
could, and he gave us really good vibes about the fact that he thought he could get us a baby. At 
least we walked out of there feeling really positive. So instead of just sitting back, you know, we 
had just-- we'd reached a dead end, and we were just sitting back, like, waiting for something to 
happen, and nothing was happening. And so instead of sitting back any longer, you know, and 
just waiting for this to happen, we went out in search of it. So we contacted him. We left there 
higher than a kite, thinking he was going to be able to help us. And the other wonderful thing 
that happened that winter, maybe in February, sometime in February, this would be 1971, he 
brought the most wonderful woman into my life, and her name was Linda Wippet, and-- oh, 
that's you, and she changed my life. And I don't think she probably realizes how much she 
changed my life, but... She was running for Miss Whatcom County, and was having a difficult 
time with her talent. And Stan, because we're communicating now, knew I needed something in 
my life, and I had been a music major at Western Washington University, and he thought I was 
talented. I didn't. I was, you know, feeling a little insecure at this time, but he thought I was 
good. I mean, he thought I could help, help you with your talent. And he sent you to my house. 
And I remember the day you walked in, and you had a song. What was it called? You remember? 
Something about a rag doll.  
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Linda C. Meuter  18:35 
I Had a Pain in My Sawdust.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  18:35 
I Had a Pain in My Sawdust was a song. And I just, I thought, Oh, I'm not that good. What am I 
going to do? And not only that, you'd been working with a Patty Jorgensen, who was the music 
teacher at Blaine High School, you know, who was a piano teacher for all of Blaine. And I 
thought, Wow, how am I going to follow her act? We sat down, and I knew enough about the 
piano that I could play the notes, and anyway, within the first hour, we were working together 
and I remember you got really excited, and you said you were excited. You said, You have really 
helped me, Sue. I have gotten more help from you than I've had the whole last month. And I got 
excited because I thought, Oh, great, I can help you then. And you came every night, and you 
were--I don't know. You were-- you had such spirit and such excitement about you that you 
made me feel that way. And I was excited, you know, every night to have you come, and we 
worked wonderfully together, and your song was good, and we did a good job on it. And I 
worked a little bit. I was, you know, I'd ask you what you were doing, as far as your walking and 
other things you were doing. And I would watch. Just visually, I know a lot about production and 
so forth. And I would watch, and we would work on your walking, and work on your interview, 
and we worked on what you were to wear, and I thought you ought to be dressed a little 
sophisticated, and not like a party doll, like a lot of the girls tend to wear, the tea dresses with 
lots of ruffles. And I said, No, I remember saying, No, we don't want to do that. Anyway. May 
15, isn't that your birthday? 
 
Linda C. Meuter  19:19 
Right.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  19:26 
May 15 was the Miss Whatcom County Pageant, and you were the first girl from Blaine to win 
Miss Whatcom County and I mean, it was, it was exciting. It was more than exciting. It was, it 
was absolutely thrilling. And I think the whole town of Blaine was excited. The whole town of 
Blaine went just nuts. I-- wasn't it Mrs. Wampler had won? Years and years ago, the competition 
had been called Miss Rose Queen, or something like that. But 20 years ago, Mrs. Wampler had 
won that title of that queen. And so for 20 years, every year, a Blaine girl tried out for Miss 
Whatcom County, and never won anything. And so the whole town of Blaine went nuts. Your 
picture was in the paper. They put my picture in the paper, you know, was just like an instant 
celebrity. And then, then what was fun for us was you usually went to Alaska every summer, and 
so you got to live with us that summer, and to have a teenage daughter living in our home all 
summer. It was fun. It was fun for me. It was like I had a little sister. That was how it felt to me. 
I had a little sister and someone to talk to. You and I used to sit up half the night. I mean, we'd sit 
up till four or five o'clock in the morning and just never run out of things to say. We'd just talk, 
talk, talk. And you were going to parades, and I could, you know, some of my went along on, 
and I just felt such a part of your whole, you know, of everything that you were doing. And you'd 
come home after a parade, or after, oh, date, or whatever you were dating-- all the guys in 
Whatcom County wanted to see if they could have a date with you then, do you remember that? I 
mean, you got phone calls from guys you didn't know, just because they wanted to go out with 
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Miss Whatcom County. And Stan and I felt like we were kind of responsible too, and, you know, 
checking out when you were getting home and, you know, and everything, and you were 
working at the [?Home Cafe?] at the same time. One thing I'll never forget was you, you used to 
bring us home soup from the [?Home Cafe?], and I remember you brought us home some split 
pea soup one night. Do you remember bringing-- 
 
Linda C. Meuter  22:17 
--I remember we had soup-- 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  22:17 
--this huge two and a half gallon...  
 
Linda C. Meuter  22:20 
The big mayonnaise jar. 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  22:21 
Yeah, but this was a big bucket of soup, and you spilt it. It was spilling, I think you started in the 
car spilling it, and it spilled all through the house, and you got to our sink and you dumped it into 
the sink-- or you dumped in our sink and it wouldn't go through the sink. And so our sink is just 
in and you are-- and it's like two o'clock in the morning, and we're both sound asleep, and you're 
yelling, Sue, Sue. You know, I've made this mess, come help, you know? And this soup is just 
bubbling in our [laughs], in our sink. But there was never a dull moment and and it reminded me, 
because I was so close to my sisters, and it reminded me of, you know, when my sisters and I 
were all-- were together. We were always talking and up-- you know, and it reminded me of 
having them around again. It reminded me of all those happy times. It was a-- the whole summer 
was great that way.  
 
Linda C. Meuter  23:11 
It was a fun summer for me.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  23:12 
Was a fun summer for you? 
 
Linda C. Meuter  23:13 
Right, right. Late nights at Denny's.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  23:16 
Late, oh dear, yes, that's right. We'd go up and just sit and drink coffee and talk, talk, talk, and 
then you, because you won Miss Whatcom County, you got to-- you had a year, but then you 
were going to get to run for Miss Washington the next year. And, you know, and you were 
getting ready to go to PLU and, you know, so many things were happening, but it was just-- it 
was one of the most fun summers of my life. And then I also spent some time at Lummi. We-- in 
our trailer over there. I don't know, did you-- you must have come over. 
 
Linda C. Meuter  23:45 
I came over a couple times, but I don't remember to be staying in trailer then. 
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Susan Quant Bianchi  23:51 
I think I stayed some, but more at home that summer because you were here.  
 
Linda C. Meuter  23:54 
Yeah, I had to work. I had a really tight schedule, but I remember going and visiting the reefnet 
set.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  23:59 
Yeah, you went on it.  
 
Linda C. Meuter  24:00 
[?Richard Raymond?] was out there.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  24:01 
Right. Oh, that's right. He fished for Stan that year, didn't he? 
 
Linda C. Meuter  24:05 
Yes, yeah. It was a lot of fun. And that place, I could see that that was a haven.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  24:10 
Oh, yeah, it was great. Well, life content-- life continuing, I think the next biggest, most 
interesting episode in my life happened. That fall, we were getting-- this is a crazy story, but it 
all happened, we were getting new draperies, and the lady was from The Bon Marché, and she 
knew of our plight of wanting a child. And she had, I think he was three, a three-year-old 
grandson that she want-- she turned around one day and asked us if we would please adopt him. 
And, I mean, I was just like, She doesn't even know us. You know? 
 
Linda C. Meuter  24:49 
Right. 
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  24:49 
What the story was was his father was in prison, and his mother had run off, and they were going 
to put him in the, you know, through the court system. They were going to put him in foster 
homes, and she didn't want that. And what she was asking was if we could adopt him. And I was 
thinking about it. I mean, I absolutely thought very seriously about adopting him. His name was 
Billy, and I kept going, Billy Bianchi, you know, Billy Bianchi, and I could just see this kind of 
little toughy kid, you know? And she just, you know, begged us and would call us and please, 
what she wanted was to be-- to continue to be his grandmother. So that night, and I kept 
thinking, Oh, how wild this would be. My mother would be his grandmother, Stan's mother 
would be his grandmother, We would have these dinners, and Billy's grandmother would show 
up, also, you know, as this third party that I hardly even knew, but she absolutely, dearly loved 
her grandson, and was, you know, terribly frightened about what was going to happen to him. 
And I don't know, I think her son was in prison for something like 10 years, and I don't know 
what he had done. But anyway, we considered it enough that we checked with the courthouse, 
and the next thing I knew, I had interviews with a woman named Rita Albright, and she's the 
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probation officer. She knew the entire case history about the father and the grandson and, you 
know, and everything, and you know, she considered us, and we-- I spent an afternoon talking 
with her about, you know, adopting. That would be the best thing that could happen to Billy. 
Would be, you know, rather than going through years of foster homes, you know, if the right 
couple could adopt him. He had a lot of med-- not medical problems, but a lot of physical 
problems, I guess you would call it. He had been tested through Western Washington University, 
and one thing he had was he had absolutely no attention span whatsoever. I think in his testing, 
he came out with a two second attention span total. So I would go to bed at night and dream 
about how I could make this work, how I could, you know, you would have to be a very active 
parent with him, you know, and how we would get up in the morning, and go for walks and just, 
you know, do all these active things with him. And, you know, I think I spent about two weeks 
dreaming about Billy Bianchi being our son, until I had my meeting with Rita Albright. And she 
was a very sincere, very direct woman who listened to how badly I wanted a child. And what she 
told me was, she thought it would be very, very harmful for me and for my family that the love-- 
she says, You have so much love to give a child, that there's a chance this father will get out of 
prison and fight you for custody for him, and your heart will be broken. You need your own 
child, someone that this situation could never happen to you. And she recommended that we stay 
with our attorney and just keep, keep on with the fight of getting, you know, getting our own 
child. And it was real hard. It took me about a month to just totally let go of Billy because, you 
know, for about two months, Billy Bianchi. Billy Bianchi was... 
 
Linda C. Meuter  28:23 
Going to come in your life.  
 
Susan Quant Bianchi  28:24 
Was going to come into our life, maybe. And I knew Rita Albright was right. I knew everything 
she said. I knew she was right. And I was really worried that that his father would get out of 
prison and not want him, because he's not-- he sounded like a totally irresponsible person, not 
want Billy, but show up at our house at all-- whenever he felt like it to see Billy, and we'd have 
this ex-prisoner in and out of our lives, along with the grandmother, you know. And it was, I 
mean, I wanted a baby that bad though, that I was willing to do all that, until Rita talked to me 
and I thought She's right, I'm going to wait. So we let go of that, and just decided that that wasn't 
what God had planned for us. And we would, we would wait, and that down the line a baby 
would be coming. And this was-- this went into kind of the winter of '72 and... Okay, next, in the 
winter of '72, I was asked to work on the Miss Blaine pageant as their talent director. And it was 
really good for my self esteem. My self esteem was good at this time anyway, I guess. But what I 
found was I found something that I loved to do and that I was good at, and it's pageant is 
something then, that you know, I did for 20 years. It was one-- it-- there were so many good 
things that pageant-- one of them is that it brought some of my very, probably my very closest 
and dearest friends into my life. Through you, through Kathy, through June, who were the next 
three to run, through the next 20 years, Barbara Rauch and Barbara Fuller. Many friends came 
into my life that are my closest friends today, and there's more to pageant-- I mean, know, I 
always hate to, always kind of hate to talk about pageant, because I think it has a negative 
connotation for a lot of people. And this is not the Miss USA pageant. This is one that is based 
on 50% talent, and I just wouldn't work on-- I wouldn't work on something that I didn't think was 
quality. And once I became director of the pageant, which is several years, you know, later, but 
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the quality was superb. And the girls, you know, will still write to me, and how much they've 
learned, how they got jobs that they never would have gotten because of their interview training. 
 